Overall Graduate Education in India is Pathetic. Agree?

Alright..here comes a counter argument from Suri to Rashmi’s comment

To understand the following post, you have to read the above comment posted by Rashmi.

graduate education in india

*****

Madam, will you come to reality? To be more clear I will stick to %s throughout.

The things you say about freedom and responsibility are too bookish and ideal.

I was my father’s responsibility till I was amateur and he paid his fair share of Tax (infact more than fair share for he is a Govt servant, Do you know 99% of Indian businessman don’t pay their fair share and so Govt employees are forced to pay more), He didn’t get any subsidy on anything and paid for everything in bringing me.

It is convenient to quote , “Never ask what your nation did for you, but ask what I did for it”, I know it and is inbuilt in me and most of the people who want to study and live in US.

But for greater goods it is better to take indirect route.

Lets take some practical points:

You know Govt of India spends about 2-3 Lacs per IITian during his undergrad education. Now do you have any idea how many of them actually go in their relevant field, ” serve the nation and pay back to their homeland”.

Most of them are only interested in gaining the money and even if it comes at cost of working in a field in which they have no interest( Yes this is 100%reality, check if you have any friends at IIT) Loads of them go to pursue MBA and 90% of what was invested in them goes down the drain.

Do you think looting Indian people with *conditions apply clauses, for US based firms is serving nation just because they pay tax to Indian Govt is better than NRIs, you are somewhere wrong maybe.

If you think the ones who go to US are “traitors and selfish” aren’t these people more or less same. And on a different note, if you want a developed nation you will need more engineers and technician rather than MANAGERS.

Coming to non IIT and NIT, how many actually go into non-consultancy firms?

I know there are lots and lots of real contributing people who in this world also do not give money first priority, but to be realistic we need to talk about mass mentality.

90% of non IIT and NIT guys will atleast for first 5 years(read their best years) either are not in a sufficient high position(read not the victims of managers) or lack of resources.

If such a guy with very little job satisfaction toiling in say Infosys and Wipro wish to pursue higher education is this his fault.

What option he has? Can he go to IIT (He will need GATE rank of <500) or NIT (which are decent only till undergrads).

The overall post graduation study condition is Pathetic in India,Tell me if you don’t agree to it?

If you need to be certain see how many research papers say in IEEE are published from India and then in US, (If you are unaware, in research based masters study, these papers are lithmus test of your performance).

What is wrong if he wants to go to US after spending his and his parents hard earned money for he wants change in his life and for a good. And let me tell you the ideals exist only till man is at peace, but when his mind is disturbed what is wrong if he thinks of him first rather than nation, He can always come back to serve nation when he is settled.

Salary Comparison

You quoted a salary of a software engineer at age of 30 which I found a bit rosy, it is actually 8-10 Lacs because not all are in top firms and not all engineers are software ones.

(Seeing your experience I know you will find it hard to digest but here it is http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=Systems_Engineer_(Computer_Networking_/_IT)/Salary#by_Years_Experience

What about a chemical engineer? and funny enough not everyone is an engineer.

Common Man in USA vs India

Moreover I took the case of a “Common Man” in USA vs India and not an engineer.

The life of good fraction of them is screwed up being in sandwich in lots of different bread in different inclination.

It is but natural if he let out his anger somewhere inappropriate, leave alone reading novels or exploring different cultures or aspects.

Think why the cheap comedy shows and Bullshit family dramas are flourishing in India. I am sure you can find a correlation.

Talking of queues no one minds if it is for a reasonable cause.

I had to speed post few docs to US and I thought I was pretty smart I had reached just at the time of opening of Post office but the queue had come to the road.

I went next day before 1 hour of opening and was sure I had nailed it this time but the length of queue was the same.

I love to screw myself so I went a third day even before, and after standing for 3 hours the clerk says “International??? What International??? Come after 2 pm!!!!” I had to courier it paying 5 times more money.

I was in France for 2 months and had to collect money from their Post office and also my situation was a bit complicated. Not only there was next to zero queue at peak hours, my job got over in 7-8 minutes even when the ladies there knew very little English and sent me back with a smile.

Now talk of “pleasant work environment” clause. I am assuming you are a lady, so may be you haven’t faced such troubles but a guy cant get an errand done here without swearing for 5 times and sweared on even more.

And talking of productive work, Quoting so many of seniors and friends in unison engineers are just cheap labors here if they are ordinary. Just think on same lines why India had a BPO boom.

May be these will open you a bit more:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/68-of-graduates-unfit-for-jobs/211026-60-121.html
http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/may/10/tvr-shenoy-on-the-degeneration-of-indias-universities.htm
http://www.zimbio.com/Education/articles/3j2B9o20b9_/Bad+Indian+universities+produce+millions+unfit.

You say I quote USA is better than India, I admit to it but my love is exclusive for India.

I will say it doesn’t make you a loser if you admit it.

And yes an average Engineer from US will be better then an average Indian Engineer due to numerous clauses.

If you don’t agree to it well then give some proofs.

The reality is, we are behind USA in most of important parameters and just by narrow mindedness and your paying tax clause we are not helping India, but by taking education in USA, working there for a decade and coming back to India we will have much better scopes for its growth.

Remember life is not a one dimensional run where there are only the Good end and the Bad end, It is much more complex and that makes it more beautiful. Isliye “Soch Badlo, Mulk Badlega”.

PS: I belong to IT-BHU (ranked 7-8 in India and 2000 on world level) I spent 4 months abroad (not US) for intern and in a weak moment I wanted to have my family there and live forever but again my love for India is more.

I belong to VLSI domain and would be glad if you could recommend a good company to me but I have already a job offer from a “biggie” in my field of interest and I do not intend to join it as I have an admit from a top 25 univ at USA and awaiting Visa. Also my senior at this biggie, who helped me in cracking its job interview is leaving it, quoting, “I cant take it anymore”.

*****

Your Comments?

Do you think Graduate Education is pathetic in India?

Suri has argued passionately that education quality has to be improved, but that doesn’t one shouldn’t love the country.

What do you think?

 

 

56 Comments

  1. peterparker on April 15, 2013 at 2:51 AM

    And i would like to add something here, the work which is done in the infosys, wipro etc, the guys and girls who have higher IQ will feel bore with it. Believe me, I have done that work and it is too much boring. Smart people will never like that work. And problem in india is that there is no engineering, hence, engineering graduates have to move out of the gut rut, hence they pursue MBA. There is nothing wrong with this, because smart people need something to motivate them. I mean, come on, will the person be satisfied if the only thing he is asked to do is to write a program which gives an output file based on certain SQL logic, after topping science n maths

  2. peterparker on April 15, 2013 at 2:47 AM

    This is the problem with indians. Deep inside, they love USA, the lifestyle, the opportunities, but they will not shed there indianess. According to me, if indians are going in USA, they must integrated into their culture. Absolutely nothing wrong in this. Infact, Chanakya himself has said that be the part of that nation and follow its culture which has provided the opportunity to you. All these elite educated urban indians may be try to show off that they have achieved something and yet did not lose their indianess, and others are foolish. Oh yes, these people actually follow self made rules and bounds.

  3. Aman on January 1, 2013 at 3:00 AM

    Earlier comment had spelling mistake.

    There is no denying that Indian Education system is not more than Masala.
    Not only is the problem of equality in eduction oppurtunity and its worthless in IIT investments,but also is the problem of surprise,tests,assignments,etc.
    We are given many bulk assignments of 60 pages in aiming to understand and learn.
    Do you think that people with writting problem with me will be able to do fastly all these things.
    The syllabus is completed without explaining properly.
    We need to refer number of books and need time to understand the subject.
    In India,we need to pass the exam with S grade without understanding the subject.
    I am presently a final year mechanical Enginiering student and still we don’t know to supply correct amount of voltage to generators.This is a clearly rubbish Eductaion full of inappropriate continuous surprise tests and continuous meaningless Assignments .
    An assignment should be something which enables us in learning.
    I am also an inventor who is inventing an engine that runs on gravity.
    The quality of physics PU (12th)education in India is rubbish in certain places and good in certain places.
    Then how can I learn Enginiering? because of these,Some people are intelligent and yet they don’t make up to IIT who do to tolerate 1 percent less marks.
    Quality education should be for all.
    Most Worker’s children do not get education and cannot buy small land or house.Then if they occupy roads in Kandivalli, dhanukarwadi in Mumbai,to make sideway tents,how can police represeting lathicharge them without giving education. To make money for buying home!???
    Few years back I saw small tents in mumbai,roadside,and government wanted to demolish those.Poor people did not had education to do a good job and did not had money to buy a land.Just like primitive stone age people unaware of future societies.

  4. Aman on January 1, 2013 at 2:55 AM

    There is no doing that Indian Education system is not more than Masala.
    Not only is the problem of equality in eduction oppurtunity and its worthless in IIT investments,but also is the problem of surprise,tests,assignments,etc.
    We are given many bulk assignments of 60 pages in aiming to understand and learn.
    Do you think that people with writting problem with me will be able to do fastly all these things.
    The syllabus is completed without explaining properly.
    We need to refer number of books and need time to understand the subject.
    In India,we need to pass the exam with S grade without understanding the subject.
    I am presently a final year mechanical Enginiering student and still we don’t know to supply correct amount of voltage to generators.This is a clearly rubbish Eductaion full of inappropriate continuous surprise tests and continuous meaningless Assignments .
    An assignment should be something which enables us in learning.
    I am also an inventor who is inventing an engine that runs on gravity.
    The quality of physics PU (12th)education in India is rubbish in certain places and good in certain places.
    Then how can I learn Enginiering? because of these,Some people are intelligent and yet they don’t make up to IIT who do to tolerate 1 percent less marks.
    Quality education should be for all.
    Most Worker’s children do not get education and cannot buy small land or house.Then if they occupy roads in Kandivallo in Mumbai,to make sideway tents,how can police lathicharge them without giving education. To make money for buying ome!???

    • peterparker on October 25, 2016 at 6:25 AM

      Problem is that this rubbish education is provided to those people who hail from good family. Actually, it is at schools that training must happen properly, and after the school hours are open, kids must have their own time to hone their own skills. But, Indians are still living in socialist mindset, though the world has changed a lot. Even today, many people think that getting a degree will fetch them a job, where as, getting is degree now days is a mere formality. The thing which matters are skills. People are paid to finish jobs, not to learn.

    • peterparker on June 5, 2017 at 8:33 AM

      The struggle is because school’s curriculum, which is the foundation of the graduate is not updated regularly. I went to UK for my masters, and I was struggling to finish the assignments, but the europeans were not. They were cracking the tough problems in 3 days. It is because of the school education system. Education is largely free in the Europe. And also, those people are dedicated. Attitude of Indians is always to get a tag, brand, get a job, not research in science, engineering or any subject.
      Indians made mistake by following American model of Education. America had all the resources and wealth, and they can do it. How can India policy be centered around this system, when there is a huge gap.

  5. samdonly1 on November 15, 2012 at 2:57 AM

    you nailed it dude

  6. harini on November 13, 2012 at 10:28 PM

    Came across this post by accident. While the comparisons pretty much hit the nail on the head could you guys stop and think that there is more to this world than just engineers?
    While the Govt of India spend lakhs on an IIT student and while the rest of the engineers either make it out of the country or get decent MNC jobs somewhere in India, what about the other losers like me who love science, the other science, I mean Biology.
    While you don’t get a second glance in India even with a Master’s I came here to the US to pursue a PhD. NO I am not considered brain drain and my GREEN PASTURE was just higher education.
    Now after 7yrs of PhD, I am stuck as a postdoc for years now. While an engineering Masters guy who shared an apt with 10 other similar people drives a Merc 3yrs later, I am stuck with a old Camry. While the new US educations system is all gungho about science and technology there is nothing rosy about the future of science in the US too.
    I don’t have a green card ( my boss makes me work 55 hr shifts for 45K and wont let me think about my future), cannot travel to India(no money) and seriously thinking of applying for WIC or any other govt assistance I can get since I am in my late thirties and with 2 kids. They say there are jobs in the industry,but neither I nor the scores of other post docs I know how to get an interview.
    However friends who have completed their PhD from India and stayed put are in decent Govt jobs which pay close to a lakh per month and ofcourse are having all the fun.
    While they are celebrating Diwali today, I am sneakily typing up this post and hoping my boss does not catch me and dump another 5 hrs worth of experiments on my head.
    There is no green pastures any where for us from this side of the science world.
    Cheers!

  7. Vaibhav on April 16, 2012 at 3:27 AM

    😉

  8. P K on April 15, 2012 at 2:29 PM

    Hello ,

    I am writing this Comment which follows the thread “Graduate education is pathetic in India”.
    Yes it is !!! The education system is pathetic !!! 🙁

    I am a guy who had a dream of studying in IITs from my childhood. From 12 th, I started my preparation for getting into IIT through IIT-JEE. After i got the results, i was shocked to see that i got 2 marks lower than the minimum individual cut-off marks in Physics. Qualifying in Maths and Chemistry does not matter at all. All my dreams were shattered !!! :'(

    I don’t blame Indian edu system that I did not get a seat but I blame it for the reason that it will give seats to those BC, SC, ST who have a very very low cut-off marks !!! Leave about the quota allotted for them, atleast the cut-off should be the same !!! :O

    Through AIEEE, I got into SASTRA University, the uni which is next to IITs, NITs in ranking. I had a great opportunity to carry on research work from my 2nd year in B.Tech. 🙂

    I wrote GATE exam in Life Sciences to get into IITs. I got an All India Rank of 508 (95 %le). I was really happy for that. But that happiness lasted for only few months. I contacted many IIT Professors but only 1 replied saying that I should have a GATE Score in Biotechnology not in life sciences. Next year i wrote GATE in Biotechnology and scored AIR of 1200 (92 %le). Though it was less than the previous one, it was valid one and the qualifying rank went upto 3,000. So, I was sure that I can get into IITs. But that professor said he had no vacancy in his lab. If it was the case why the hell did he tell me that he wants GATE score in Biotechnology to enter his lab ??? ‘_’

    Getting into IITs for Masters is very very difficult. NO ONE RECOGNISES OUR TALENT, ONLY SCORE MATTERS IN IITs. In my case, scores are there but luck is not there. :-/

    Meanwhile I had done 2 projects and completed Internship at famous CSIR research organization. My worked is now published in Famous International Journals. I am very very happy that I can learn from my experiences. I will suggest others that getting a seat in USA is very very easier than getting seat in IITs. Only its just a matter of money and learning. 😛

    Currently i am working in a top MNC. Planning to go for MS as soon as possible. Hope I will achieve my goals soon. 😀

    • Vaibhav on April 16, 2012 at 3:26 AM

      🙂

  9. Tarun on April 15, 2012 at 11:16 AM

    Hi , first of all , I have studied in Bengali medium School , so please pardon me for my silly grammatical mistake .

    After reading the post and comment , I wonder how many of you studied in IITs/IISc ?? The profs dont know any thing !!!! To understand a person dont know any thing , you need should have at least 3-4 times knowledge / command on that subject I guess .

    Being a IISc topper ( CE dept 2010) , I can say only one thing , please visit at IISc , and your idea about Indian academic institute definitely going to change .

    I understand that , the facilities are not so good , but hey you pay only 8-12 K INR per annum as tuition fees , that also get reimburse by good grade , scholarship etc. You pay 30000-40000 $ and then ask for those facilities .
    In our country resource to people ration is too high , we cant provide those facility .

    Now about teaching…… well I am having second class in BE ,at IISc , in first sem I got 4.8 CGPA — so I am a bad student according to you people ??? I got a admission offer with funding from Purdue ,waiting result for UMICH Ann arbour , UC Davis ( Purdue rank 4 in entire world in civil research . Source – HSB) . My several friends got admission from MIT , UT Dalls , Penn State , University of verginia etc etc .

    All are fully funded . Now it seems misleading isnt it ??? I mean according to you people our teachrs are dumb , they dont know any thing , as a student we are having second class so I am a dumb one , our institute have no reputation ( plz dont say they have brand name , brand name came because some body have done something , that means they have reputation ) , So in one word we are dumb , then why these top university giving us fully funded admission offer ?? Because our ability in research…….to perform good research at PhD level dude you need to know some thing , that mean we know our subject . yes we dont have good grade , bcoz we dont want to mug up .
    Moral of the story is : Before saying IISc/IIT/IIMs are bad , first secure a seat on those institute and then write about their standard .
    ( Dont u dare to say anything about my awful english , first secure a seat in world top 3 institute in ur respective field & then criticize my english skill 😛 )

    • Prasad on April 15, 2012 at 11:58 AM

      +1 Tarun!

      • vinod on April 15, 2012 at 1:05 PM

        Tarun….forget about IITs which gives admission to candidates with their current level through only one exam.Admission into IIMs is bad..they set cutoffs even with the board of examination student studied rather than exam alone.
        you cannot check the funding vs facilities which IITs get .IITs and IISc gets crores of rupees as funding, we don’t know where that money goes.
        You said you got 2nd class in BE , but you should have got good recommendation letters and SOP for getting admission, None of our indian universities care about what students want to do after graduation(ie., SOP).

  10. FR on April 15, 2012 at 8:41 AM

    If you can’t accept the truth and live in your own world, get out of here.

  11. Prasad on April 15, 2012 at 4:29 AM

    Is going abroad (esp. USA) for studies is the only thing on entire earth that all of a sudden makes you superior, learned, wisdomist, true individual, leader, scholar which you were never an iota of it while in india or before “MS in US” dawned nto your minds? Come on guys!

    In a very true sense, “pathetic education” from pathetic India (thank you all who are saying this… ) or superior highest quality education offered by USA which is the best not just on earth but in the entire universe (thats what you guys wanna advocate)-doesnt really make you or break you any of the above! Its ‘you’ that matters, and if it is in you, f**k MS/MBA in USA or in any other country, you dont even need highschool level qualification to be a very successfully established person in your field!

    I have my friend who did schooling from a “pathetic” school in a village, BE from a “pathetic” college in rural area of Maharashtra, never went to US for polishing or gaining so called skills, however despite all this patheticness he possessed, after 10 years since the graduation, today he is a CMD of a small engineering company he has established, with a staff of 100+ ppl right now, having a turnover of 25Cr rupees! (still big amount in dollars right? Also no 20-30 lakh loan like MS guys) he travels so many countries to expand his business, have established awesome contacts from all spheres of life! His knowledge in his field of engineering is really awesome! Why is it so? He was a pathetic guy from a pathetic school and pathetic college then how all this happened? He kept his eyes open, he really thought innovatively, he took the challenge to challenge his inbuilt abilities to make them his strengths instead of bullshitting on the system he grew up in! Now THAT makes a difference! And guess what! his parents are farmers in Maharashtra!
    Some known ppl like Narayan Muruthi, Nandan Nilekani, Kiran Mazumdar Shaw of Biocon,
    There are so many examples around us we just choose to ignore them!

    Guys look around, expand your horizons and think of ideas, think innovatively-dont give up any amazing idea without really giving it a deep thought this is how wonders are born! Not by whining and cursing/criticizing on systems!

    Yes our system has flaws, many minor and major ones so are with US educational system!
    Is US educational system really that impartial as we see? In fact we absolutely dunno how decision making takes place at admissions! But we are ready to put blind faith into it!
    Have you guys ever came to know how Mukesh & Anil Ambanis got admissions to harvard and wharton? How Rahul Bajaj got into Har8ard? Currently How young Isha Ambani got into Yale? Are these guys were really intellectual gems or its something “else” that matters for the admission committees? Does US universities really select students on pure merit basis or manage at least some part to “their” kinda reserved category which brings them name/fame etc? Come on you guys! You can surely say indian system is not as it is expecated be, but look in the history before start firebombing!
    I really wish HSB should start a thread like “Flaws in the indian education system and remedies” if he want fair debate here!
    can we do more open discussion about both positives and negatives from both education systems AND bounce some amazing ideas how to change them? Why to whine everywhere??

    Studying abroad is “just” one option out of so many, to become what one dreams! 😉

    i have get opportunities to meet and discuss with some of the best brains in the world and have observed their total readiness to change the system (any system) and they always speak in terms of solutions!
    you guys all suck because of your pathetic complaining/whining & criticizing attitude in every thread, it shows how intellectually dwarf you guys are!

    • Rashmi on April 17, 2012 at 1:02 AM

      + 1, after all we are all the products of the same “pathetic” schools/colleges/universities.

      • Prasad on April 17, 2012 at 3:23 AM

        intellectuality is your innate ability to imagine-visualize things, assume and find out solutions and implement them in your unique style, its an individual USP, whereas education simply imparts the accumulated knowledge, it has nothing to do with from where you get your education-pathetic or high class institution.
        thats why from the entire batch of lets say MBA batch of harvard biz school only few ppl would achieve remarkable success in corporate world while many would achieve average success and few would achieve below average or even fail.

        Saying “its because we are the products of pathetic educational system in india” resembles to “its because we are the products of pathetic parents!” after all it appears more obvious!

    • farhan on August 1, 2012 at 2:36 AM

      Brother, I respect your point. But 1 successful guy! No matter. Lets say, you can name 1 lakh Indian guys with that success.. But the rest of the 213 CRORE people in this big country is in turmoil. Like I said, I agree with you on your point that if a person has it in him, it doesnt matter where he is from. But WHAT ABOUT THE OTHERS???? The others who doesnt have it in them! People who needs to have a certain quality of education to reach a level of certainty to lead their lives prosperously! To reach that level you have specified. We need a greater quality of education right from the junior school to the Post graduate education levels! We need it, but doesnt have it. The aam aadmi needs more that just himself, if he has to be better than what he already is.. He needs good quality education, which our education system lacks, and the foreign universities provide!

  12. srivathsa on April 15, 2012 at 2:56 AM

    Take it from me. If the RTE is implemented, just to stick on to the % of passes, the teachers will be forced to either increase the moderation marks or to dilute the standards. Our politicians want to maintain the status quo (ie., not to impart knowledge to all ) so that they win with money and word power.

  13. VIJAYABHARATHI on April 14, 2012 at 11:54 PM

    All readers & bloggers just think about a reason why we are opting for US,UK, Germany, Australia, Canada!!!!! its nothing but the embezzlement prevailing in the society making us to think about it(moving out of country for studies or profession). It is just a waste of our self concern , time & self esteem in the virtue of paying tax in the India. I worked for 5 years in a MNC corporate the tax I paid is nothing but a waste of money & my blood. Instead of paying tax I might have fed a guy or girl from a very poor family who is in need of money for their education. The political trend in India is thwarting & making us to ran out of our mother land. But once when we returned to India after studies & gaining a cumbersome we should have to question the hypocrisy prevailing in the political society. If you are a true Indian do this.

    Jai hind!!!

  14. nandish on April 14, 2012 at 7:58 PM

    hey i am under achiever in my school days or anywhere it came to studies..in India once a person who scores distinctions are treated in certain ways and those who score average are treated in certain ways .There is no practical education in India in graduate studies everything is just bookish knowledge .Here there not many platforms where you can show your talent other then studies ..
    But in there they motivate you to go in desired field ,,and at least they try to reason with you for getting low grades and help students ..Here the only thing that matters is whether we paid our fees or not..

  15. siddhartha on April 14, 2012 at 5:45 PM

    @aziz……it seems that you haven’t checked ur stats before posting it..IIMA is ranked world no 8 dude…
    The only diff is that IIMs give pgdm…

  16. Ravi kiran on April 14, 2012 at 3:47 PM

    I’m very surprised to see that you are an engineering student for commenting on 30 yr software engineer life-style in India and US. Obviously U gotta “Reading a lot” !!!
    But I would rather say from my experience of corporate life that a guy can manage to read books if is able to either in India or US. I have seen people (esp Indians) working out of SanJose(CA US) even in Indian day-time to cope up with the work-pressure. Never believe corporate company as all they expect from you is work. At the end of the how well you strike the balance is all that matters.
    I do agree that Higher Education is Pathetic in India. That is why I am here writing this comment :). I need a better education and knowledge to excel my present profession here in India, not to run away from it.
    I do agree that in work culture and professionalism US is far superior than India. But remember we Indians play major role in that in any company. From my present job, I can assure you, People can sustain that professionalism even when they are tapping into talent of India ( I am sure lacking this made your senior feel he cant take it any more) ..
    PS : “I would rather see and say rather than read and say”

    • Suri on April 14, 2012 at 9:08 PM

      Isn’t a bit of precognition the need of time?

      • Ravi kiran on April 15, 2012 at 2:12 PM

        May be .. As my organization is also very new (just 20 months back) this may not be applicable to other,even top-notch, companies .. But sure that is going to be the future .. So I want to keep an open mind and If I find an equivalent job here, I am ready to move back after my MS … Whats your take ??

  17. Pratima Roy on April 14, 2012 at 3:12 PM

    I totally agree with those who say that the education system in India is pathetic, and to go one more step further,right from schooling.Students are used to spoon feeding in private and corporate schools and colleges.In Govt educational institutions the teachers don’t have a pinch of feeling for ignoring their wards.As a lecturer,I really feel very bad for this sad state.Valuating the papers is recently concluded,in which only the govt lecturers who got promoted from schools as teachers,librarians,clerks of DEO’s office are taken as chief examiners and,ridiculously” subject experts”!They can’t even utter a short conversation with out a mistake at least once in each sentence!I represented the same mattter to the Controller of examinations via e-mail.But they keep a deaf ear to such facts and put all efforts to degrade the standards of education further.The result is that the students want even the classes in M.A English literature to be taught in their native language and not English!Yes,this is my own experience.Indifference to raise the standards of education from the government and lethargy on the part of the teachers, together with the Student unions who demand high percentages at the university exams- all are responsible to the day by day increasing pathetic condition of UG and PG education in India. In fact I am eagerly looking for an opportunity to express the state of affairs in the education curriculum in the country.I shall be very glad if a news paper comes forward to accept my views in the form of an article.

    • Ramanamurthy on April 15, 2012 at 2:49 AM

      I totally agree that the education (particularly Grad and post Grad) is pathetic in India. I am 56 years old. I have done M.Tech. (CS) from IIT, Bombay, Worked in the industry for 32 years (from Programmer to General Manager) both in India and abroad. During my job, I have interviewed a lot of candidates for recruitment and found most of them (including IITians and NITians) not satisfactory. I left the industry, came back to India and joined a Private Engineering College as a professor. I thought I can change the system.. But, neither the management, nor the students really want to learn or improve.. they only want pass percentages. the students want the important questions before the exams and the management wants better pass 5age than their competitors. The lecturers also don’t want to teach.. because 1. they don’t know 2. they don’t care. When we studied, we were lucky to have dedicated teachers who took interest in the overall development of the student Today the situation is totally different.. You came across very few dedicated lecturers, enthusiastic students.

      • HSB on April 15, 2012 at 10:34 AM

        Easiest solution for the problem would be to award lecturers to based on what they teach, not based on pass percentage. Schools should higher better quality lecturers.

        • stacy on December 5, 2012 at 12:05 PM

          hello sir..i am looking forward to do Ph.D in organic chemistry..as your an experienced person which path would you suggest me in taking, studying in abroad or studying at IIT in India?

      • Rashmi on April 17, 2012 at 12:57 AM

        You are one of the role models. India needs more people like you. I am also a product of Govt schools/colleges/universities and I can proudly say that I am what I am because of my teachers. These days I teach in engineering colleges on weekends and I see that students and lecturers have a very different mindset. Students look at the qualification of the lecturer before they concentrate on what the lecturer has to say in the class. The same students will accept blindly what ever the teacher says if the teacher is from XYZ university in US. Students need to be open minded and look to extract knowledge. If you sit in a class of “Networking”, the focus has to be on how networking works and not “what the teacher does not know”. Most of the teachers in private colleges join because they could not make it in corporate. Also, an interesting paradox is that every one wants to have the best teachers, but no one is interested to be a teacher. I know in your college, if 3/4 more people like you were there, you all would have found it a bit easier to fight it out. We need more people to come and make a difference. I do not like it when people like you are less in number. That is the problem. I know things are not that great these days, but seeing people like you, I get inspiration to fight on. Thank you.

    • Preeti on April 15, 2012 at 3:08 AM

      Ms Pratima, I am also lecturer and have experience of teaching in India as well as in American based universities.I have a different view. The curriculum followed by CBSE is far ahead of the senior school curriculum of their US/British counterparts. The US/British students might be superior or equivalent but worse than Indian students for Maths and Science.The Indian education might be bookish/theoretical but in depth. I agree there might be very few research papers at conferences like IEEE, but things are changing. I still support Indian education system!!

      • Becca on April 16, 2012 at 3:06 AM

        Hi Preeti,

        As far as Indian school curriculum is concerned, it is better than that of the US counterparts but not UK. I studied in a school where they offered both CBSE and GCSE (O and A levels) and there is no doubt that the UK syllabus is ahead. As for higher studies, US education system is much better than Indian.

      • peterparker on October 25, 2016 at 6:40 AM

        Till school the education is good. But, the undergraduate, especially for engineering is pathetic. May be things have changed now, but, at least, in my days, I received pathetic undergraduate education, with faculty having no idea about the concepts of computer science. Back in those days, IIT were few, just 5, screening was introduced, JEE exam became way too tough to crack, and it was the era when India was setting large number of universities, the private ones. Now the kids coming out of these places are getting good deal, which is good, but they don’t realise that there was another group of people who actually have gone through lot of pains, not just mental, but emotional, societal too, and virtually have lost.

        And this is where, even the distinction began. If someone gets into IIT/NIT/BITS/DCE, they were pretty much hired at good positions in industry, but, not for those who were not passed out from these elite universities. DU’s cut off started to increase during this time, it was the year 2000. In fact, the university from where I have studied, Indraprastha, and DU had a tussle with each other. Delhi university used to declare results of DCE day before the entrance examination of indraprastha university. And, to our surprise, the number of people writing entrance of GGSIPU would have gone down. What’s more, I have seen people cheating in entrace examinations also.

        This clearly shows the mindset of Indians, that they are not in these to contribute, but just to get a rubber stamp. The society which values useless competition, at all levels, that ‘I am superior, you are inferior’, certainly would never rise anyways.

        Regarding IITs, I have seen their downfall. I think I belong to that population, who really wanted to join IIT for the love of engineering, but, now, it is a place for ego satisfaction.

        I have seen the decline of Indian education, actually.

        About myself, I managed to clear IIIT-Bangalore, it was by luck though, did not join, that was 2005. Then got short listed for S P Jain PGPM, could not convert, and could not pass my edinburgh’s masters program, though got a diploma, but went back to academia after a 9 years of prolonged gap. Though, problem is, I still have to get a job.

  18. lakshmi ganesh m on April 14, 2012 at 2:51 PM

    ya i agree with vinod and nikhil……that reservation in iims is really pathetic
    there is no equality in our country due to this reservations as nikhli said:reservations in IIM add salt to the wound.A guy with reservation with 85% in cat gets a call from all IIMs whereas 99% guy without reservation is back to square one without any calls.Screw the education system here.It sucks.
    c’mon friends come out of this country we have lot of opportunities outside . here we dont have anything that we deserve….this fucking reservation system….people are not judged by their talent but by their reservation.
    c’mon friends we deserve a lot……..and please ever never try to change the way the things go here, u will either end up ur life doing so or u get changed completed.

  19. vibhashu on April 14, 2012 at 2:51 PM

    i totally agree,in india the majority of professors dont know anything and the ones who know and want to make any changes in system,intransigent higher faculty do not pay heed.the main reason i wanted to go to usa is to learn something,i did my b-tech from electronics and communication and i wanted to learn how communication works and everything of my field but the professors were the alumina of my university and dint know anything and all they gave was there notes or important questions which will come in end sem.
    And it is a true fact that 99% of toppers dont know anyhting.they are just RATTU TOTA.
    And if i am going to USA or any other country for higher studies than what is wrong in it…parents did there best to make sure we get best education which they dint get and sacrificed a lot to make sure we get most of the comfort and as for myself i think that it is my MORAL DUTY that i should keep progressing in life and and take my familys standard to next level and dont degrade it just by studying in some hyperbole college or university in india.nothing comes w/o sacrifice and i am willing to pay debt.

  20. aziz on April 14, 2012 at 2:25 PM

    Agreed about IIM’s.I knew one of my friends who got 695 in GMAT was refused admission as they require 715 in GMAT and that was really frustrating for that guy.He opted for US B School and at end of his two years, he got a package of $ 77000, which he could have never earned after IIM.
    IIM may be a premier institute in India, but look at the fact that it has NO world ranking.You know where IIM stands in world ranking for Top B Schools? I have statistics.IT RANKS 179/500 Top premier B schools worldwide.

    • vinod on April 17, 2012 at 1:44 AM

      IIMs can never stand in front of US and Other B-schools.If You study in any IIM ,I can assure you will never learn about other nationalities Where as in US B-schools you can find different nationalities which makes students ready to face any part of the world.

  21. MADHAVI on April 14, 2012 at 2:08 PM

    NO I TOTALLY DISAGREE GRADUATION FROM IIT IS WORTH

  22. Vinay on April 14, 2012 at 1:58 PM

    U live once. Why compromise if you can do better? At the end of your life, when you are breathing your last will you be telling yourself
    “Yayyyy…. I stayed in my country all my life, put up with all the crap,settled for mediocrity, probably did nothing productive, but heck! Who cares… Patriotism and loyalty is what matters”.
    OR
    “I traveled the world, explored new places and new cultures, opened my eyes beyond my little pond, did something I am hopefully proud of in my lifetime and likely am rich and successful”

    Which would you be rather saying? Before you come here telling me that either of the two situations don’t apply to the everybody, think about which of the above two scenarios is more likely?

    Do your relatives in India whine more about their jobs or do your relatives abroad whine about their jobs more? And its no co-incidence that many of you go from “NRI- Haters” to “NRI” yourselves, seem to end up being an “NRI”.

    Save your crap patriotism speeches at your college/ university Independence day functions. None of you would be here at a blog that promotes education in abroad otherwise. What a bunch of jokers you bunch are. Hypocrites! Love your country. I do too. Don’t come and tell me you are willing to live on the streets if at the end of the day you are still living in this country. You study, work, earn etc etc so you can lead a proper life. Otherwise you whole bunch would have joined somebody like a Raj Thackeray or that Muthalik fighting for your neighborhoods and States from your childhood. You are all grown-ups. Start thinking, acting and speaking like one before you come here running your mouth regarding us “Glory- Hunters”.

    • Sri on April 14, 2012 at 9:56 PM

      Well said..! I saw a lot of shit comments India vs USA ,all folks going to USA are traitors … Pity their parochial outlook and blinkered approach to life … No one is asking them to come to USA and do ms … You guys better stay in India and join raj thackrey than coming to USA and spoil our name there … What’s wrong in calling a spade a spade… Education in India is pathetic… Accept it..!(except for iits and iisc …which for getting into ..you have to be really smart!!)….
      If u guys dont want to go to USA or any other country for getting good education then please stay away from this blog rather tha posting comments like I Love my country.. I will not go abroad…
      And to all the Samaritans over here posting .. I will change my country.. I would like to know what have you done till now for making a change.. I am sure many of you didn’t participate even in rallies supporting lokpal bill (literally,many school students did that)…
      I am not abasing INDIA … Mother and Motherland are always sweet and nothing can replace it… Buts there is nothing wrong in getting education abroad to improve our skills rather than sitting in home country with pathetic skills…
      To HSB.. : I really adore your patience in replying all such comments in the “Real Reason I’m Going to USA : To Be Treated Like a Human Beings” post… Honestly,if I was in your place I would easily get annoyed and a stream of invective would flown out of me …

  23. Ira on April 14, 2012 at 12:52 PM

    I am a big fan of HSB, because it is a platform where details about education abroad and what its like are posted regularly, and all the other tips of how to study for GRE etc. , all of which is from the perspective of someone who has already done that. It usually makes a good and educating read. However, for some time now I have been seeing people on HSB are only intent on cricticising India.Or telling us how much better USA is.

    I read HSB to get information about what life is like for a student abroad, which are the good universities etc. Why say bad things about the country you belong to?Everyone ultimately studies wherever they have to – India or abroad..everyone does what suits them and whats best for them, why then compare the 2 and generate negativity among everyone else? Really- what do we gain by trying to analyse whats bad about this country we are from? Yes- maybe there are bad things- corruption, poverty,bad politics and what not.

    But for once- imagine being born in a country of the Arab world- where wars are going on even as we sit here comfortably reading this post?Or in some far away place in the continent of Africa- where there may not be food to eat, water to drink? USA itself will also have problems of its own- like racism and their own huge debt to cover. Let us for once be thankful of where we belong, and do something better than only criticise our own country.And as someone above has said- compare apples only with apples.

    • Suri on April 14, 2012 at 9:23 PM

      The world is changing very very fast and so is the competition. You know, now the generation changes every five year in terms of their thinking. Either we can shift all this to our blind spot and quote “Why say bad things about the country you belong to?Everyone ultimately studies wherever they have to – India or abroad..everyone does what suits them and whats best for them, why then compare the 2 and generate negativity among everyone else” or say lets be happy because atleast unlike other countries we face less war threat and hunger. While competing with South Africa or Australia in Cricket, don’t we try to bring our level A game, try new strategies, think beyond the box or just rant, Hey we are atleast better than Zimbabwe and Bermuda.

  24. Anirban Samanta on April 14, 2012 at 12:37 PM

    Totally agreed. I intend to pursue accelerator physics for my PhD. Can you name a single institute in India that offers such level of courses or can even provide for the research costs. Not that the Indian government does not spend enough money on our education its just that I have always felt that the expenditure is geared towards making corruption possible. I have friends in almost all the IITs. From their account I understand that the educational facilities are not much better than any other major college in India, just that their structure and exposure is a bit better, but then that’s simply because of the tag. And its impossible for anyone from outside to demand such exposure in India.

  25. K SITARAMAN on April 14, 2012 at 12:16 PM

    The objective of each country’s educational system has to be analyzed before we embark upon comparison of systems across the globe. May be one of the objectives of Indian educational system is to cater to Indian Industry’s demands. Even here, as we all know, experts have time and again lamented about the proverbial gap between what our eductaional system produces and what the industry wants. If the universities abroad find a few of our under and post graduates suitable for higher education, be that as it may. Let us not blame those who leave in search of greener pastures, as this is a natural evolutionary process. Let me take this opportunity to remind us in India about the growing shortfall in the number of people who are prepared to do manual work – maid servants, porters, cart pushers, cooks etc. This may be an indicator to show the shift to a better pattern of employment caused by our educational system. Given the country’s population size and the inherent cultural issues, we can expect progress only in trickles.

    So let us compare only apples with apples.

  26. Sri on April 14, 2012 at 12:15 PM

    Agreed totally…. Education in India sucks…..

    • venkat on April 14, 2012 at 12:40 PM

      HSB, u made valid points in this post… thanks for the post 🙂

      @ Sri Education doesn’t sucks ….. Its the government who is responsible for this … I live in A.P, here there around 750 engg clgs, i don’t understand why AICTE is giving permission for new engg clg even though there are no proper equipment’s, facilities which doesn’t meet the standards … We acquire more knowledge when we do practical work that is research … India lacks in the field of research that is the major point I consider and on the other side corruption is piling up….. 🙂

      As @HSB said we love our home country so its our responsibility to shape our country …. I know shaping our country is like eradicating corrupted one’s from every corner of our country , its merely impossible but we have to give a try …

      • Sri on April 14, 2012 at 8:14 PM

        @venkat Dude ..Even I live in A.P.,Hyderabad… and I am from one of eng. clg. which has a very poor infrastructure …
        I said that Higher Education “sucks” and you elaborated why it “sucks”…. Be it govt or aicte …

  27. Hari Veturi on April 14, 2012 at 11:37 AM

    Its been an year almost since view posted/ commented on HSB.. Of course was reading every post made by him 🙂 This forced me to comment 😀 perfect pal.. Also the post of ” money isn’t the factor = perfect ” will be back soon!!

  28. Simran Preet Singh on April 14, 2012 at 11:31 AM

    Yes I totally agree with this guy . If you go to any state universities like PTU (Punjab Technical University) , UPTU (Utter Pradesh Technical Univ.) or any such , they totally suck . Results are not on time . Student has given exam but he is marked absent , if results come on time they are totally pathetic and its not because student dont study there but its because examiners dont check papers carefully . They get money for every paper they check , so they check maximum papers they can in a day .

    • vinod on April 14, 2012 at 11:57 AM

      you are right.even IIMs just prefer guys with good academic background(they think marks are token for brilliance).Many freshers don’t even know how a stock market works before they go to IIM.That is the reason we can see entrepreneurs coming out of other B-schools from US is high than IIMs .One of My friend got 99.41% in CAT but still got a call from JUST one IIM because he got 69% in his graduation.Universities should start looking for guys what their current level not their past. He finally took GMAT after working for 3 years and got into Wharton business school which is ranked higher than IIM.

      Brain drain is the result of this kind of attitude of IIMs.

      • Nithin on April 14, 2012 at 12:51 PM

        I agree with what Vinod says.Adding to that,reservations in IIM add salt to the wound.A guy with reservation with 85% in cat gets a call from all IIMs whereas 99% guy without reservation is back to square one without any calls.Screw the education system here.It sucks.

  29. Karthik on April 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM

    Buddy you’re right, no disputing your. Move out of this shit hole fast! All the best.

    • Adam Streak on April 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM

      well said Karthik.

  30. Adam Streak on April 14, 2012 at 11:28 AM

    We all appreciate this post, the comparison is not about creating any differences, nor degrading the pride of a nation, these are only facts.

    We also need the same types of post for “Common man in USA vs Canada” !

    • venkat on April 14, 2012 at 12:43 PM

      Every country has its pros and cons ….. India is developing country where as USA is developed country, so that makes alot of difference I think so……..

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